32 comments

  1. Tony Gurr

    M,
    Loved it 😉
    But, you “missed” one:
    – Your boardwork wasn’t very good, was it?
    Yep, someone actually said this to me once – funny thing was I didn’t even use the board 😉
    T..

    Reply
  2. mikecorea

    Thanks so much for the comment, T.
    LOL @ “Your boardwork wasn’t very good, was it?” That is a great one. Maybe we *should make 11-20!

    Actually your comment reminded me of something I suddenly think is super important…the checklist mindset impacting our perceptions of “good teaching” and which impacts what we see and then what we say.

    Cheers,
    Mike

    ps-Your message prompted me to make a small change in the post and add something about LEARNing to response 1.

    pps People reading this and remotely interested in LEARNing and observation/feedback, please do yourself a favor and head over to Tony’s blog.
    Blog: http://allthingslearning.wordpress.com/
    Observation/feedback: http://allthingslearning.wordpress.com/2012/06/23/what-exactly-is-best-practice-in-classroom-observation/
    (be sure to check the links for the “series”)

    Reply
  4. Kevin Stein

    Hey Mike. This is so yummy. And right before I went on vacation (which is going swimmingly) I had 2 observations in two weeks. One of the observations was filled with excellent questions and feedback that left me feeling exhausted, but buzzing for my next lesson. The other observation, which was a drama class for lower level students included:

    – Where was the stage?

    And

    – Was that a language lesson or a drama lesson?

    Anyway, at least I got a free donut out of the second feedback session.

    Kevin

    Reply
    • mikecorea

      Your donut mention seems to have quite a stir here in Commentland, Kevin. You wrote that one of your FB sessions led to you feeling “exhausted, but buzzing for my next lesson.” This sounds great! Laura asks below what sorts of questions are useful. I wonder if you have something to share on this. (of course not immediately while on vacation!)

      It seems like the comments/questions that you mentioend from the 2nd (donut) session point to a characteristic I see in not so useful feedback…the question was for the observer (curiosity or knowlege) and not for the teacher from my view.

      Thanks so much for the comments and enjoy the vacation!
      (you deserve it!)

      Reply
  5. suelyonjones

    Enjoyed this Mike, & found myself nodding along in agreement as I was reading it.

    My favourite gem which springs to mind – “Why didn’t you just give them the answers?”. Expect you can guess what my response was to that…

    Having read Kevin’s comments, I feel mildly cheated by the fact that no-one has ever offered me a post-observation donut.

    Sue 🙂

    Reply
    • mikecorea

      Thanks for the comments and for sharing the gem! I think I can imagine the response! 🙂
      The causes of these type of breakdowns are becoming a bit clearer to me…and this one seems like perhaps this is a conflict in beliefs here. My guess is that you knew very well why you didn’t “just give the answers” and had your own pedagogical reasons for doing so.. The question seems to come from a place of judgment/suggestion even though you were likely happy with what you’d done and probably did it again the next time. Thanks again for sharing and for helping me think about bit more about this stuff!

      Reply
  6. Laura Phelps (@pterolaur)

    I also really enjoyed this but it hit a bit of a nerve. I don’t think I’ve been a particularly good observer for the last 18 months, although it’s been a critical part of my job – my employer seemed to assume (and I did too) that it was something you could just do as an extension of teaching but it’s really not. You need training and support as an observer too. I think/hope what I did manage to do was move away from focusing on what didn’t happen (‘Why didn’t you put them in pairs?’ – the subtext being, you failed to put them in pairs) to what did (‘Why were they working alone for this activity?’ – better, but still sounds like a criticism!), and pick up on more of the positive things I saw going on generally, but looking back now I should have thought about it much more than this.

    The things the teachers noticeably took away from post-observation discussion were practical ideas for activities, since ‘activities’ per se don’t really feature in language education in Sarawak, so why did I not orientate feedback sessions in this way? I guess because I was using all the times I’d been observed as a model for what observation looked like. All the observations I’ve had have been very similar – this was good, this was not so good so you should probably change it. It’s actually a pretty unhelpful (and highly subjective) model.

    What questions *do* you ask? How do you make a ‘why’ not sound like an implied criticism, since the fact that you’re asking at all suggests it was something noticeable? Genuinely interested, since I’m going to have to do this in my next job too and I don’t want to make the same mistakes. Thanks again for this post Mike 🙂

    Reply
    • mikecorea

      Hi Laura,

      (apologies in advance for the scattered rambliness of this. I hope there is something here that makes sense or is helpful! Perhaps there is another blog post kicking around here)

      Thanks for brewing up these delicious comments and for sharing them. Much appreciated.
      I have mixed feelings about nerve striking but I will just move on. I am happy that this may have given you a chance to think about these things in a different way.

      I am in full agreement that training mentoring and feedback giving and whatever are quite different from teaching. I also really think training and support for observers is super helpful and important.

      My sense is a lot of times people that are considered good at teaching get moved along to observing roles with out the help and practice that they need. (Hahha…my previous posts about misfires as an observer gives an example of that). I think that training/mentoring (clearly different things too, I guess) are not extensions of teaching even if there are parallels and spill over.

      Wow, I have used lots of words in this response but not said much!

      Some things that have come to mind after reading your post.

      *I personally don’t want to hear the above things but perhaps other teachers might.
      Many of my course participants in Korea seem to believe that feedback is a chance to collect suggestions for next time.

      Surely the teacher’s personality, experience, reflectiveness and a host of other factors would play a role here.

      Also…I guess I was mostly considering peer observation…where much of the above could be rude (or just not helpful)

      You wrote, “All the observations I’ve had have been very similar – this was good, this was not so good so you should probably change it. It’s actually a pretty unhelpful (and highly subjective) model.”
      I have to agree…but I don’t’ have much in the way of a replacement. I just think giving more control to the teacher to determine what is talked about (and observed) is a good start.
      (with full knowledge that this might be new and different and uncomfortable and everything else)

      (As a teacher) I guess I am sort of over “good” and “bad” and am more about discovering things I might not have seen without the help of the observer.

      I think that people learn FB from their previous experiences and also learn that it tends to be quite uncomfortable and perhaps not so helpful (huge generalizations here!). To my mind one of the key issues is that we often mix up observation for evaluation with observation for development with confusing results.

      You asked, “What questions *do* you ask? How do you make a ‘why’ not sound like an implied criticism, since the fact that you’re asking at all suggests it was something noticeable?” I suppose it can start from asking real questions and not questions where we already know the right answer (which means the teacher was wrong). I think if development is the goal it also means that we as observers can be working for the teacher (and not vice versa). Ideal perhaps but maybe possible.

      Thanks again for the trigger to more thinking about this!

      Reply
  7. Justin

    I’m feeling jealous as well. As a veteran of literally hundreds of feedback sessions, I have NEVER received a donut. 😦

    Ah, the checklist/rules based mentality!

    This is one of the million dollar questions in my mind: In Korea (or wherever y’all happen to be) is this sort of feedback really reflective of the depth or lack of depth with which teachers think about teaching, or is it reflective of being uncomfortable giving feedback in English, and therefore relying on formulaic and general feedback?

    When I see feedback happening in Korean, it certainly seems that there may be more nuance and less dogma and filler there. My Korean is far too sh!t to be sure, though. I know that with Ecuadorian teachers, there was a lot more sophistication in feedback when we did sessions in Spanish.

    Reply
    • mikecorea

      Sir,
      Somehow didn’t manage to respond to your comments yet. I think your question about the language being used is a good one. It also seems that here in Korea there are lots of cultural issues about being direct which tend to (IMHO) lead to worse feedback that is probably more likely to cause discomfort/loss of face. I saw a feedback session in Korean this week (!) and while I didn’t understand too much I felt it was more nuanced (others agreed with this). I also heard that it was quite suggestion heavy and detail light but that is another story. I look forward to discussing these and other issues with you soon in person. Lots to think about indeed.

      Reply
  8. Rachael Roberts

    Come very late to this as I’m on holiday and haven’t had much opportunity to catch up..but this post caught my eye on a quick foray to Twitter.
    I love the examples you give, Mike, and think they could be used very effectively on a trainer training course.
    Personally, I think the point of developmental feedback should be to identify areas which are ripe for discussion, and open up a dialogue. So I don’t see the point in pointing out that someone has forgotten to do something, because, obviously, if they’ve forgotten, they didn’t make a conscious decision not to do it, so there’s nothing much to discuss there.
    With something like the lack of pre-teaching, there could be an fruitful discussion about the pros and cons, so I might say something like,’I noticed that you didn’t pre-teach any vocabulary. What are your thoughts on pre-teaching, do you think it can ever be useful?’

    Reply
    • mikecorea

      Hi Rachael,

      I think you were right on time with your comments. Thanks! I appreciate the dedication to be checking blogs whilst on vacation! 🙂
      I am glad you liked the examples. They were actually (mostly exaggerated) examples I have heard and heard of in life as well as on the trainer (or more accurately peer mentor/helper) training program that I am working on at the moment!

      I really enjoyed your thoughts about developmental feedback, especially because, quite honestly, in my current course I think I have gotten away from encouraging such conversations. What I see happening is that when such conversations start people get away from talking about the lesson that we just watched and get into some hypothetical world that seems to be different for everyone. So, lately, I have been encouraging people to talk about what they saw in the lesson that we all saw…and how that helped/hindered student learning. Easier said than done perhaps. Again, I think that your thoughts about opening up a dialog are very important and something that has been missing a bit from what I am doing.

      Of course context/situation plays a huge role (as always)
      Thanks again for the comments!
      Enjoy your holiday!

      Reply
      • Rachael Roberts

        Yes, I think you’re right that it needs to remain centred around the lesson and the learning that did (or did not) take place. However, I also think it’s good to bring out some generalised principles to help teachers develop their beliefs.

        And good to have doughnuts (forgot to mention this important factor last time!)

  9. Alex Walsh (@AlexSWalsh)

    Hi Mike!

    I think you raise a very important point here regarding feedback, for me the key is that feedback should be an opportunity to evaluate the reasons why what happened in the lesson happened, in terms of both what the teacher did and the students did.

    I don’t actually think there is much wrong with subject of most of your statements, but rather question what the observer is trying to achieve in bringing the subject up. Let me give an example, you wrote:

    1) You didn’t pre-teach vocabulary. – What if this was reworded to -> Why did you choose not to pre-teach vocabulary? What effect do you think not pre-teaching the vocabulary had? If you were to redo the lesson, do you feel there would be any advantages to pre-teaching the vocabulary?

    8) Your material was not very well made. It looked pretty unprofessional. You should have spent more time making that. – What if this was reworded to -> Do you think making smarter looking materials would have affected the lesson in anyway? How important do you the ‘appearance’ of materials are in your lessons?

    9) That activity worked very well today but I don’t think it would work with higher level students. What would you do in that case? -> I really liked this activity because ……………….., do you use similar activities with your higher level students? If so how do you adapt it for them?

    4) You forgot to give instructions before the second reading task. How did you feel? -> How do you think the second reading task went? What support had you planned on giving the students to help them with this task?

    I think you sum up the problem in your opening paragraph when you say “Below are some STATEMENTS that might be (commonly?) heard in feedback sessions”. I personally feel that feedback should not be a time for the observer to lectures or instill their beliefs about teaching on the teacher but to open up a dialog with the teacher examining what happened in the classroom and promoting reflection on what the teacher might want to think about when planning future lessons.

    Thanks for the thought provoking post mate,

    I want a donut,

    Alex

    Reply
    • elkysmith

      Partly following the recent #ELTchat podcast with Tony Gurr, the key elements for me in improving the affective aspects of observations are:

      1. A pre-obs discussion during which:

      – the observee can talk about their past experiences with obs, their thoughts about the one that’s about to happen and what they might like the observer to focus on.

      – the observer can emphasize that: the observee knows the class better than the observer so the decisions made during the lesson might be for reasons that are not immediately obvious to the observer; the observer’s perspective on the lesson is not the only one so the reasons why things are done/not done is more important than what is actually done/not done.

      2. Giving the observee the opportunity to provide their perspective on the lesson first – much better if they can discuss any issues off their own bat before they’re raised by the observer.

      I did this recently after listening to the podcast and it made a big difference to the whole process.

      I must admit, though, Mike that my reaction to your post was that, if we try too hard to avoid straightforward, direct questions like ‘Why didn’t you…’ we run the risk of turning ourselves inside out trying to find kinder, gentler, more indirect alternatives . The risk then of course is that we can end up simply being patronising and ultimately the effectiveness of our feedback might be lost.

      It makes me think that some of Scrivener and Underhill’s Demand-High principles could apply here. We have to be sensitive, yes, to range of affective factors in all teacher development activities, but do we risk insulting our observee’s intelligence and maturity and undermine the effectiveness of our teacher development by being overly sensitive?

      Reply
      • mikecorea

        Hello there Elky (or some anagram of those letters),

        Thanks so much for the comments! Much appreciated.
        I also thank you for the chance to (re)think about some things.

        Your comments helped me see that perhaps I wasn’t super clear about my main problems with some of the comments.
        (Again imagining a peer observation for developmental purposes but I think there is a lot of crossover/spillover) to other situations.
        I don’t think my main issue was just about affective aspects but rather about people imposing their beliefs or having beliefs masquerading as facts.

        I don’t think we need to shy away from dealing with potential sensitive issues or worry too much about hurting feelings (at the risk of not helping at all). I do think that if the listener gets defensive or shuts off then it doesn’t really matter what we say because it will be blocked.

        I guess I am on anti-suggestion kick at the moment after hearing lots of suggestions being made by my course participants to each other lately. More accurately I am on an “anti suggestion without description or reason” kick lately.

        For me description is a really key element of reflection and I think that when a FB giver just starts out by giving a suggestion they are sort of short circuiting the teacher’s chance to reflect…thus the emphasis on description/evidence/details first. I find that a lot of the time when faced with descriptions about what actually happened in class teachers can make their own action plans after thinking the situation through. To me this is quite the opposite of insulting our observee’s intelligence.

        So I guess my problem with “Why didn’t you…” isn’t that it is straightforward it is that there seems to be an underlying belief in there that I did something wrong and perhaps that the observer knows the right thing I should have done. I am thinking that maybe “Why didn’t you” is problematic for me because it is not direct enough…and might cause me to explain something I didn’t do only to expect the observer to tell me what I should have done.

        As a teacher, I would much prefer clear examples of what happened in class and take it from there with the help of the observer. I guess I think that suggestions are best made when the receiver is ready for them…and not as the opening to an exploration.

        I hope I am making sense….it has been a long 2 weeks focused on feedback and observation!

        My idea is that often being overly sensitive to the teacher causes observers to talk negatively about trivial things (meaning things not associated with learning) which still hurts teacher’s feelings but doesn’t help them improve.

        I guess what I want to say is that I am sorry if the impression I gave was that I was simply pushing for kindler and gentler feedback. What I was hoping to push for was feedback based on what actually happened and suggestions called suggestions and beliefs called beliefs.

        By the way, I am with you on a pre-observation discussion as well having the teacher share their perspective first. Very helpful!

        Thanks again,
        Mike

        ps- Here is the podcast that Elky referred to from GFOTB Tony Gurr: http://allthingslearning.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/i-was-a-podcast-virgin/

      • Chris Ożóg

        Hi Elky and Mike,

        This is an interesting post which, as usual, asks some good questions. I assume you’re talking about in-service observations? I think what you say is absolutely spot on, if so. I’ve written about observations here (http://eltreflection.wordpress.com/2012/02/23/on-being-an-observer/) and a version of this was published in the IH Journal here (http://ihjournal.com/observations-on-observations-by-chris-ozog) (sorry for the apparently shameless self-promotion, just don’t want to re-type). If you put those two posts together, you’ll get something like a coherent argument.

        However, for pre-service training such as CELTA, comments such as “you didn’t give instructions/check instructions, etc” might actually be useful (if used wisely – see below), as the trainees may not yet have developed a critical awareness of what was ‘good’/’not-so-good’ in their lesson. The reason I say this is because at this level, we’re trying to help the candidates to develop a variety of techniques to best help their learners and to help raise their awareness of what can happen if instructions are confusing. Now, the trainer should under no circumstances be hurtful or cruel when delivering this feedback and, I think, try to lead the trainee to see it for themselves (or better, another trainee might mention in), but such things should be pointed out in the end if the trainee isn’t ready to get there themselves.

        I had an interesting experience on my last CELTA. There were two candidates who were not at all confident and found feedback difficult. Through a series of feedback sessions in which we focussed a lot on all the positive aspects of the lesson (including my new rule that you must say 3 positive things about your class before we move on to the rest of feedback), with my feedback being very enthusiastic and specific to points that had previously been weak and that had improved, as well as new points that worked well in class, they started to grow into their roles in the classroom (wow, that’s a long sentence). Of course, there were things which were below standard at points, and I pointed these out and we reflected on them, but they needed the extra praise and encouragement to get them going. Other trainees didn’t, and so I approached feedback differently for them.

        I think the above is interesting (and I’m not taking credit for an improvement in their teaching; they did it, not me) as with the wrong kind of feedback like you mention in the article and I touch upon in my posts, I wonder what would’ve happened to them and how they would’ve felt after their lessons. Fear? Demotivation? Dread? And ultimately, if they feel like that, they’ll never go anywhere. The observer’s job is an important and delicate one.

        Massive post over,

        Chris

    • mikecorea

      Hey Alex,

      Welcome back and thanks for commenting. As you know, I like to provoke some thoughts.

      You wrote, “for me the key is that feedback should be an opportunity to evaluate the reasons why what happened in the lesson happened, in terms of both what the teacher did and the students did” and the big takeaway for me is the focus on what actually happened and what might have happened or what happens with my students or whatever else didn’t actually happen. You also added, “I personally feel that feedback should not be a time for the observer to lectures or instill their beliefs about teaching on the teacher but to open up a dialog with the teacher examining what happened in the classroom and promoting reflection on what the teacher might want to think about when planning future lessons.” Well said.

      (Of course there are tons of distinctions we could make based on the context/situation as well as roles. I think I *should have mentioned that I was thinking about something like a peer observation)

      You asked:
      1) You didn’t pre-teach vocabulary. – What if this was reworded to -> Why did you choose not to pre-teach vocabulary? What effect do you think not pre-teaching the vocabulary had? If you were to redo the lesson, do you feel there would be any advantages to pre-teaching the vocabulary?

      Great questions.. To me this seems more like a discussion and would be much easier to take and discuss. At the same time I think I’d still rather have some reason for your sharing your belief that pre-teaching is necessary. I’d want to have some reason based on what happened in class (like students being totally confused during a reading task from vocab that could have been pre-taught).

      8) Your material was not very well made. It looked pretty unprofessional. You should have spent more time making that. – What if this was reworded to -> Do you think making smarter looking materials would have affected the lesson in anyway? How important do you the ‘appearance’ of materials are in your lessons?

      (great question mate) I am confused about the basis for this question. You saw my materials and determined they are shyte and are now trying to get me to think about making them look smarter. I am still wondering about any effects on student learning and not just your own hidden curriculum. 🙂

      9) That activity worked very well today but I don’t think it would work with higher level students. What would you do in that case? -> I really liked this activity because ……………….., do you use similar activities with your higher level students? If so how do you adapt it for them?

      I like this (especially because of the example). At this point I feel like I am helping you (by thinking of ways to adapt this activity) than you are helping me based giving me feedback on the lesson.

      Perhaps mutual help like this is the way to go….I guess from my very narrow focus at the moment it sounds like we are not doing feedback on my lesson anymore but have moved along to a general discussion of teaching.

      4) You forgot to give instructions before the second reading task. How did you feel? -> How do you think the second reading task went? What support had you planned on giving the students to help them with this task?

      It went horribly cuz i didn’t give instructions! I’d probably get into these questions but my answers might be simple because I’d like to think that this was just something I forgot and not something i need to worry too much about.

      Donuts coming your way!

      Cheers,
      MG

      Reply
      • mikecorea

        I have been thinking about “Why didn’t you…” and why it rankles. Perhaps part of this is the assumption that the teacher did something wrong or made a wrong choice…but I think there is more than that. It is sort of a backward suggestion. I mean the implication is that you should have done this thing that I am saying but I am framing it as a question. So, for me (at the moment) part of the issue here is that is a suggestion framed as a question. I think that the problem is not that it is too direct but rather that it is not direct enough. My take at the moment is that if you want to give a suggestion it is fine but it is more helpful to “own it” rather than twisting around and trying to make a question out of it.

        I once coined such things as suggestion flavored questions. Or was it question flavored suggestions. Definitely one of those.

  10. mikecorea

    Hello Chris,
    (I hope this looks like it is in response to you because it is)

    Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts here. I am thrilled you linked to the blog (which I’ve seen and enjoyed) and the IH article (which I have just now seen and enjoyed.) Lots to think about there. There is also lots to think about in your comments here!

    Some scattered thoughts in number order.

    1) I was thinking in-service when I made those quotes, thanks for the question.
    I went ahead and added a line about this in the post.

    2) I love the idea of having trainees point out things that went well/positive things. To me, not being able to do this is just the reverse of not being able to find things to work on.

    3) I also love the idea of having trainees point out things that went well because feedback can be such a dread-inducing thing it is nice to find some positive things to start with.

    4) Thanks for sharing the experiences on your recent course. This is a great example of how things can go.

    5) Regarding courses like CELTA, I suppose an important consideration is something like the balance between how important it is for the teacher to “get things right” and meet the requirements of the course vs. the teacher showing their ability to reflect and make decisions.
    (Am I being fair here? I hope so.)

    6) I think this quote is particularly insightful and powerful, “… at this level, we’re trying to help the candidates to develop a variety of techniques to best help their learners and to help raise their awareness of what can happen if instructions are confusing. Now, the trainer should under no circumstances be hurtful or cruel when delivering this feedback and, I think, try to lead the trainee to see it for themselves (or better, another trainee might mention in), but such things should be pointed out in the end if the trainee isn’t ready to get there themselves.” This strikes me as a fundamental tension and balancing act in regards to feedback on such courses.

    7) I have been thinking about this article for ages.

    Click to access WRAP_Mann_2_Copland_Ma_Mann_rev.pdf

    8) You wrote, “The observer’s job is an important and delicate one.” Well said and very true.

    9) Related to #8 I think that this is something that can be reflected upon and improved upon but often observers are thrust into the role without being ready and can cause a bit of harm.
    My example of my misfires as an observer being just one example.
    (https://eltrantsreviewsreflections.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/personal-misfires-as-an-observer/)

    10) I suppose that my persona l stance at the moment is to err on the side of cation and safety in post-observation feedback because I think that if people shut down it doesn’t really matter how helpful our feedback is they are not going to take it on.

    11) I find that I am much softer face to face and in writing a bit more direct. With the idea that they can have time to process it after reading.

    Thanks again for the comments and for the food for thought.

    Cheers,
    Mike

    Reply
  11. Ratnavathy Ragunathan

    Dear Mike

    Honestly, I had a good laugh reading your answers to the feedback questions!!!!:)))) And it really helped me feel much better on a rainy, dull day here in Ulsan.

    However, on a serious note, I think your underlying intention was actually to get practical solutions and specific examples for the shortcoming’s that’ve been highlighted. In that case, yes, you’re right. Then again, there were occasions I thought you got a wee bit defensive, but I guess that’s alright. I do that as well, we are humans after all, aren’t we? We’re made to protect and defend ourselves…:))))

    It was a good read, on the overall. I’d love to be observed by you, that’s one thing for sure!

    have a great day!

    Reply
    • mikecorea

      Hi!

      Thanks so much for the comments. I actually re-read my responses today and some things struck me as funny so that was a nice bonus. You wrote that you thought my underlying intention was actually to get practical solutions and specific examples for the shortcoming’s that’ve been highlighted. I would say that I was mostly interested in the specific examples first and then maybe some ideas on how to work with them later. My sense is that we (and I will surely include myself in this too) often jump right the suggestion without thinking about why…so I was asking for the description or what happened first to drive the feedback rather than the observer’s beliefs about what should and shouldn’t happen. As for being (a wee bit) defensive, I would totally agree. I’d also suggest that when we get feedback that comes from judgments it is often very natural to respond in such a way. Maybe I was playing it up a bit but my sense is that some of the examples of feedback might commonly provoke defensive responses. I also think that if we are being defensive we are not as likely to take on what is being said. You wrote, “we are humans after all, aren’t we? We’re made to protect and defend ourselves” and I think this is a great point. My hope is that FB can be done in a way that helps the teacher as much as possible without prompting defensive reactions.

      I would love to observe you! Let’s think/talk about it. 🙂 Thanks again for the comments!

      Reply
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  13. samuelshep

    My personal low moment of receiving feedback, which I didn’t have the confidence to challenge at the time, was “it was technically brilliant but lacked ‘sparkle'” I remain mystified as to how that was supposed to help me induce said “sparkle”!

    Reply
    • mikecorea

      [Thanks so much for the comments and sorry for the looong delay in responding…]

      I think this is a fantastic example of terrible feedback!
      For me, this really speaks to the idea of basing the feedback on what ACTUALLY HAPPENED in class.
      As an example, if an observer helped me see how students were bored (or whatever) and how a bit of “sparkle” might have been helpful I’d like to think I’d be pretty receptive to it. If, however I am held to some standard of sparkling that was previously unknown to me, I reckon would not have a great response!

      You wrote that you are “mystified as to how that was supposed to help me induce said “sparkle”!” That makes at least two of us.

      Thanks again for the comments!

      Reply
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  16. timothyhampson

    Hey Mike,

    Very happy you flagged this Vintage Griff Post™️ for me. I’ve really liked the observations I’ve had at my school so far and they’ve been very constructive. I do remember getting one comment to say “You should get students to switch places every time they speak.” which I had actually thought about when planning but decided not to do because that group of students takes ages to move around. It seems like from 1) and 3) you might have similar feelings to me. I feel like sometimes observees don’t get much time to justify their teaching style afterwards and often have to jump through hoops based on the teaching style of their observers. Often you don’t even know what hoops to jump through which makes the process more frustrating (although I do think observations are important and really helpful and I would like to have more, I might just be bitter about a comment from almost a year ago).

    Reply

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